Orcon email send error

[Worm]

Hi,

Is anyone able to shed light on this error Outlook Express spits out at me
each time I try and send an email? I am currently on Xtra jetstream (or
whatever its called this week), and have Outlook Express set to log into my
outgoing mail server (smtp.orcon.net.nz), however from the error I get it
seems to suggest the server thinks I am trying to spam and use the mail
server to relay my messages...

Any ideas..? This issue has only started in the last couple of weeks. I'd
have thought logging into the outgoing mail server would continue to allow
me to send mail via Orcon mail servers.

"The message could not be sent because the server rejected the sender's
e-mail address. The sender's e-mail address was
'***@orcon.net.nz'. Subject '', Account: 'Orcon Mail', Server:
'smtp.orcon.net.nz', Protocol: SMTP, Server Response: '553 5.3.0 Spam
blocked see: http://www.dsbl.org/listing?210.86.119.21', Port: 25,
Secure(SSL): No, Server Error: 553, Error Number: 0x800CCC78"

Cheers,

[Steve]

Post by Worm
Hi,
Is anyone able to shed light on this error Outlook Express spits out at me
each time I try and send an email? I am currently on Xtra jetstream (or
whatever its called this week), and have Outlook Express set to log into my
outgoing mail server (smtp.orcon.net.nz), however from the error I get it
seems to suggest the server thinks I am trying to spam and use the mail
server to relay my messages...
Any ideas..? This issue has only started in the last couple of weeks. I'd
have thought logging into the outgoing mail server would continue to allow
me to send mail via Orcon mail servers.
"The message could not be sent because the server rejected the sender's
e-mail address. The sender's e-mail address was
'smtp.orcon.net.nz', Protocol: SMTP, Server Response: '553 5.3.0 Spam
blocked see: http://www.dsbl.org/listing?210.86.119.21', Port: 25,
Secure(SSL): No, Server Error: 553, Error Number: 0x800CCC78"
Cheers,

Using http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/ip4r.ch?ip=210.86.119.21, there is a
suggestion that you may have been owned.

Your address is listed in a number of online databases that check for this
kind of abuse. However, some of these services ( sorbs is a classic ) will
blacklist huge chunks of the internet if they feel like it.

Do you check for malware ( lavasoft, spybot ), and reqularly run a virus
check ( grisoft avg )??? I'd check your machine thoroughly, and then
complain loudly to telecon about it. We punters haven't got nearly a loud
enough voice.

Steve

[Steve]

Post by Worm
Hi,
Is anyone able to shed light on this error Outlook Express spits out at me
each time I try and send an email? I am currently on Xtra jetstream (or
whatever its called this week), and have Outlook Express set to log into my
outgoing mail server (smtp.orcon.net.nz), however from the error I get it
seems to suggest the server thinks I am trying to spam and use the mail
server to relay my messages...
Any ideas..? This issue has only started in the last couple of weeks. I'd
have thought logging into the outgoing mail server would continue to allow
me to send mail via Orcon mail servers.
"The message could not be sent because the server rejected the sender's
e-mail address. The sender's e-mail address was
'smtp.orcon.net.nz', Protocol: SMTP, Server Response: '553 5.3.0 Spam
blocked see: http://www.dsbl.org/listing?210.86.119.21', Port: 25,
Secure(SSL): No, Server Error: 553, Error Number: 0x800CCC78"
Cheers,

Hang about... why on earth are you using the orcon mail gateway from
telecon? No wonder it's telling you to bog off. You're probably the cause
of the IP address being blacklisted. Just use telecom's gateway when
you're logged on through them.

That box is there because some ISPs require you to log on - it doesn't
give you the ability to authenticate to a mail gateway if it's set up to
only accept connections from a specific (orcon) ip address range.

Steve

[Worm]

Post by Steve
Hang about... why on earth are you using the orcon mail gateway from
telecon? No wonder it's telling you to bog off. You're probably the cause
of the IP address being blacklisted. Just use telecom's gateway when
you're logged on through them.
That box is there because some ISPs require you to log on - it doesn't
give you the ability to authenticate to a mail gateway if it's set up to
only accept connections from a specific (orcon) ip address range.
Steve

Thank you for the advice - and explaining the logging on function. I am now
using the Xtra outgoing mail server, and Orcon incoming.

Cheers,


Worm

[Steve]

Post by Worm

Post by Steve
Hang about... why on earth are you using the orcon mail gateway from
telecon? No wonder it's telling you to bog off. You're probably the cause
of the IP address being blacklisted. Just use telecom's gateway when
you're logged on through them.
That box is there because some ISPs require you to log on - it doesn't
give you the ability to authenticate to a mail gateway if it's set up to
only accept connections from a specific (orcon) ip address range.
Steve

Thank you for the advice - and explaining the logging on function. I am now
using the Xtra outgoing mail server, and Orcon incoming.
Cheers,
Worm

Y're welcome.

Steve

[Richard]

Post by Steve
Hang about... why on earth are you using the orcon mail gateway from
telecon? No wonder it's telling you to bog off. You're probably the cause
of the IP address being blacklisted. Just use telecom's gateway when
you're logged on through them.
That box is there because some ISPs require you to log on - it doesn't
give you the ability to authenticate to a mail gateway if it's set up to
only accept connections from a specific (orcon) ip address range.

Perhaps because he wants to send email with his orcon address and actually have
a hope of it getting thru spam filters, if it goes via the xtra one it will have
absolutly nothing orcon related in the hosts its being thru so will be more
likly to be tagged as spam, like all the emails that trademe sends out
impersonating the address of there users do.

[Steve]

Post by Richard

Post by Steve
Hang about... why on earth are you using the orcon mail gateway from
telecon? No wonder it's telling you to bog off. You're probably the cause
of the IP address being blacklisted. Just use telecom's gateway when
you're logged on through them.
That box is there because some ISPs require you to log on - it doesn't
give you the ability to authenticate to a mail gateway if it's set up to
only accept connections from a specific (orcon) ip address range.

Perhaps because he wants to send email with his orcon address and actually have
a hope of it getting thru spam filters, if it goes via the xtra one it will have
absolutly nothing orcon related in the hosts its being thru so will be more
likly to be tagged as spam, like all the emails that trademe sends out
impersonating the address of there users do.

The From: and Reply-To: addresses in the email has absolutely nothing to
do with the sender. I also don't think that Xtra are filtering outgoing
emails.

Steve

[EMB]

Post by Steve
The From: and Reply-To: addresses in the email has absolutely nothing to
do with the sender. I also don't think that Xtra are filtering outgoing
emails.

Learn about what sort of tests spam filters do - and then you'll
understand that it is becoming much mroe important for there to be a
relationship between the sender's email address and the server used.

And it's not Xtra filtering outgoing that's the proble, it's the
recipient's mail server filtering it upon arrival that may be an issue.

[Richard]

Post by EMB

Post by Steve
The From: and Reply-To: addresses in the email has absolutely nothing to
do with the sender. I also don't think that Xtra are filtering outgoing
emails.

Learn about what sort of tests spam filters do - and then you'll
understand that it is becoming much mroe important for there to be a
relationship between the sender's email address and the server used.
And it's not Xtra filtering outgoing that's the proble, it's the
recipient's mail server filtering it upon arrival that may be an issue.

Exactly

To a mail server, an email coming from (somedynamicIP).blah.cn to them with the
sender address of "***@ebay.com" or one coming from
(somedynamicIP).xtra.co.nz with the sender address of "***@orcon.net.nz" are
just as suspicious.

[David]

Post by Worm
Hi,
Is anyone able to shed light on this error Outlook Express spits out at me
each time I try and send an email? I am currently on Xtra jetstream (or
whatever its called this week), and have Outlook Express set to log into my
outgoing mail server (smtp.orcon.net.nz), however from the error I get it
seems to suggest the server thinks I am trying to spam and use the mail
server to relay my messages...
Any ideas..? This issue has only started in the last couple of weeks. I'd
have thought logging into the outgoing mail server would continue to allow
me to send mail via Orcon mail servers.
"The message could not be sent because the server rejected the sender's
e-mail address. The sender's e-mail address was
'smtp.orcon.net.nz', Protocol: SMTP, Server Response: '553 5.3.0 Spam
blocked see: http://www.dsbl.org/listing?210.86.119.21', Port: 25,
Secure(SSL): No, Server Error: 553, Error Number: 0x800CCC78"
Cheers,

Can you not use xtra's smtp server? (smtp.xtra.co.nz). From an Xtra IP
you won't need to login. I use this setup (mail.orcon.net.nz for
incoming, smtp.xtra.co.nz for outgoing).

[Craig Whitmore]

Can you not use xtra's smtp server? (smtp.xtra.co.nz). From an Xtra IP you
won't need to login. I use this setup (mail.orcon.net.nz for incoming,
smtp.xtra.co.nz for outgoing).

You can use Orcon's SMTP server (and turn on STMP Auth) if you want
to send out via it.. and it works fine. (Unless your IP Address is on an RBL
like Worm's is)

Thanks
Craig

[Craig Whitmore]

Post by Worm
"The message could not be sent because the server rejected the sender's
e-mail address. The sender's e-mail address was
'smtp.orcon.net.nz', Protocol: SMTP, Server Response: '553 5.3.0 Spam
blocked see: http://www.dsbl.org/listing?210.86.119.21', Port: 25,
Secure(SSL): No, Server Error: 553, Error Number: 0x800CCC78"

Have you checked the http://www.dsbl.org/listing?210.86.119.21 as said
It has said the IP Addres you are on (in the past) (Mar 2003) was an open
relay (socks4/socks5/http).

dsbl.org is quite a common RBL that people use and the webpage
as above will tell you how to remove yourself from the RBL

You will have to contact Xtra to get the removal email sent to them
and they will have to confirm the removal email.

At the moment if you want to send emails set your outgoing to Xtra's
Email servers will most likely "fix" your troubles.
Thanks
Craig - Orcon

[Rob J]

Post by Worm
Hi,
Is anyone able to shed light on this error Outlook Express spits out at me
each time I try and send an email? I am currently on Xtra jetstream (or
whatever its called this week), and have Outlook Express set to log into my
outgoing mail server (smtp.orcon.net.nz), however from the error I get it
seems to suggest the server thinks I am trying to spam and use the mail
server to relay my messages...
Any ideas..? This issue has only started in the last couple of weeks. I'd
have thought logging into the outgoing mail server would continue to allow
me to send mail via Orcon mail servers.
"The message could not be sent because the server rejected the sender's
e-mail address. The sender's e-mail address was
'smtp.orcon.net.nz', Protocol: SMTP, Server Response: '553 5.3.0 Spam
blocked see: http://www.dsbl.org/listing?210.86.119.21', Port: 25,
Secure(SSL): No, Server Error: 553, Error Number: 0x800CCC78"

No it doesn't, for the simple reason that most smtp servers authenticate
on the IP address of the connection. They are not set up for logging in
because that is not part of the SMTP protocol and is not required with
the above mentioned type of authentication.

You must always use the SMTP service provided by the ISP you are
dialling out on unless you have access to another SMTP service that
works across domains.

[Richard]

Post by Rob J
No it doesn't, for the simple reason that most smtp servers authenticate
on the IP address of the connection. They are not set up for logging in
because that is not part of the SMTP protocol and is not required with
the above mentioned type of authentication.
You must always use the SMTP service provided by the ISP you are
dialling out on unless you have access to another SMTP service that
works across domains.

All well and good to do that before this little thing called spam filters, if
you use the xtra smtp, and you post from an xtra ip address and the from field
is an orcon address, then it will likly be treated as spam, if not raise
suspicion with some of the anti-phising tools that are becoming common now.

If SPF actually gets anywhere then it will be more important that the correct
smtp server is used as the owner of the domain will have to make records saying
which are allowed to be used to send from that domain.

[Steve]

Post by Richard

Post by Rob J
No it doesn't, for the simple reason that most smtp servers authenticate
on the IP address of the connection. They are not set up for logging in
because that is not part of the SMTP protocol and is not required with
the above mentioned type of authentication.
You must always use the SMTP service provided by the ISP you are
dialling out on unless you have access to another SMTP service that
works across domains.

All well and good to do that before this little thing called spam filters, if
you use the xtra smtp, and you post from an xtra ip address and the from field
is an orcon address, then it will likly be treated as spam, if not raise
suspicion with some of the anti-phising tools that are becoming common now.

Unlikely. I rather think that spam filters are only set for Incoming Mail.

Post by Richard
If SPF actually gets anywhere then it will be more important that the
correct smtp server is used as the owner of the domain will have to make
records saying which are allowed to be used to send from that domain.

It hasn't, and it won't. However, the From: address in an email is *not*
what is being validated. The content of an email is just payload, and can
contain anything you want. The validation has been taken care of in the
handshaking performed around it.


Steve

[Gavin Tunney]

Post by Richard

Post by Rob J
No it doesn't, for the simple reason that most smtp servers authenticate
on the IP address of the connection. They are not set up for logging in
because that is not part of the SMTP protocol and is not required with
the above mentioned type of authentication.
You must always use the SMTP service provided by the ISP you are
dialling out on unless you have access to another SMTP service that
works across domains.

All well and good to do that before this little thing called spam filters, if
you use the xtra smtp, and you post from an xtra ip address and the from field
is an orcon address, then it will likly be treated as spam, if not raise
suspicion with some of the anti-phising tools that are becoming common now.

Anyone who filters on that criteria would have to be pretty stupid
IMO. A good 90% of people who have their own domain name would be
using their ISPs SMTP server to send mail, but few of them would be
using the same ISP to host their domain. POP3 doesn't have the same
issues as SMTP, with the odd exception of crowds like Xtra you can log
into POP3 servers from anywhere, so plenty of people point their mx
records at cheap hosting companies for receiving mail & use their ISP
for sending only. It's pretty standard practice.

Post by Richard
If SPF actually gets anywhere then it will be more important that the correct
smtp server is used as the owner of the domain will have to make records saying
which are allowed to be used to send from that domain.

Here's hoping it never happens then, sounds like bureaucracy gone mad,

GT