Mr Bates Versus The Post Office

[Lawrence D'Oliveiro]

In one of the most shameful scandals in the history of Information
Technology, the British Post Office deployed a bug-ridden system
called “Horizon” for the use of its sub-postmasters (post office
branch managers) to report their accounts. Then, when it started
producing completely false results, often with discrepancies amounting
to thousands of pounds, and those sub-postmasters tried complaining
and seeking corrections, it insisted there were no such flaws in the
system, telling each one of those complaining that there had been no
other complaints, and demanded those branch managers, as per their
contracts, must make up the discrepancies out of their own pockets.

This miserable saga continued from 1999 to 2015. Over this time, many
of those sub-postmasters were driven to ruin. Some were prosecuted and
jailed, their stories simply disbelieved. Some even committed suicide.

ITV broadcast a four-part docudrama
<https://www.imdb.com/title/tt27867155/> about the scandal back in
January, and it has just made its way to us in NZ. If it comes to your
town or country, it’s worth a watch.

The Register has done a number of articles as the story has come to
light, as far back as 2019
<https://www.theregister.com/2019/03/15/post_office_horizon_it_system_initial_judgment/>,
right up to this year
<https://www.theregister.com/2024/01/17/post_office_inquiry_latest/>,
<https://www.theregister.com/2024/02/01/fujitsu_finance_chief_apologises_horizon_inquiry/>.

[BungleBob]

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
In one of the most shameful scandals in the history of Information
Technology, the British Post Office deployed a bug-ridden system
called “Horizon” for the use of its sub-postmasters (post office
branch managers) to report their accounts. Then, when it started
producing completely false results, often with discrepancies amounting
to thousands of pounds, and those sub-postmasters tried complaining
and seeking corrections, it insisted there were no such flaws in the
system, telling each one of those complaining that there had been no
other complaints, and demanded those branch managers, as per their
contracts, must make up the discrepancies out of their own pockets.
This miserable saga continued from 1999 to 2015. Over this time, many
of those sub-postmasters were driven to ruin. Some were prosecuted and
jailed, their stories simply disbelieved. Some even committed suicide.
ITV broadcast a four-part docudrama
<https://www.imdb.com/title/tt27867155/> about the scandal back in
January, and it has just made its way to us in NZ. If it comes to your
town or country, it’s worth a watch.
The Register has done a number of articles as the story has come to
light, as far back as 2019
<https://www.theregister.com/2019/03/15/post_office_horizon_it_system_initial_judgment/>,
right up to this year
<https://www.theregister.com/2024/01/17/post_office_inquiry_latest/>,
<https://www.theregister.com/2024/02/01/fujitsu_finance_chief_apologises_horizon_inquiry/>.

The docu-drama started on TV One yesterday (8:30pm, Sun, 31 March) and
concludes tonight (8:30pm, Mon, 1 April) ... TVNZ played them as two
double-length episodes. They are also available on the TVNZ+ streamaing
service.
<https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/mr-bates-vs-the-post-office>

There is also a proper documentary, "Mr Bates vs The Post Office: The
Real Story", playing next weekend on TV One (8:30pm, Sunday, 7 April).
It doesn't seem to be on the streaming service (yet?).

[Lawrence D'Oliveiro]

Post by BungleBob
There is also a proper documentary, "Mr Bates vs The Post Office: The
Real Story", playing next weekend on TV One (8:30pm, Sunday, 7 April).

I loved that. I thought the recreation of the Parliamentary hearing, where
Vennells refused to give a straight answer as to whether she would
cooperate with the accountant’s investigation, had been spiced up a bit
for dramatic effect, but it was practically a word-for-word recreation of
the actual scene.

[Lawrence D'Oliveiro]

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
I thought the recreation of the Parliamentary hearing,
where Vennells refused to give a straight answer as to whether she would
cooperate with the accountant’s investigation, had been spiced up a bit
for dramatic effect, but it was practically a word-for-word recreation
of the actual scene.

Going beyond that, something I found even more incredible: the guy playing
MP Nadhim Zahawi, who was refusing to take crap from Vennells was ...
Nadhim Zahawi.

[Adrian]

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
I thought the recreation of the Parliamentary hearing,
where Vennells refused to give a straight answer as to whether she would
cooperate with the accountant’s investigation, had been spiced up a bit
for dramatic effect, but it was practically a word-for-word recreation
of the actual scene.

Going beyond that, something I found even more incredible: the guy playing
MP Nadhim Zahawi, who was refusing to take crap from Vennells was ...
Nadhim Zahawi.

Who was reported as donating his fee to charity.

Adrian

[BungleBob]

The problems were caused by Fujitsu's faulty Horizon software and
interferrence by Fujitsu's employees, and yet stupidly everyone is
solely blaming UK Post. Yes, the UK Post management were idiots and
liars, but part of the blame also lies with Fujitsu. :-\



Similarly, there are many *known* issues with Microsoft Excel's due to
the way they chose to store numbers, which causes calculations to
result in incorrect numbers, yet many companies blindly rely and trust
on this faulty software. Microsoft should be next to face the courts.

[Lawrence D'Oliveiro]

... yet stupidly everyone is solely blaming UK Post.

They were the ones prosecuting and jailing their own franchisees, ruining
their lives and driving some to suicide, on what turned out to be a
complete lie. Like claiming they had evidence of wrongdoing when they
hadn’t.

[BungleBob]

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro

... yet stupidly everyone is solely blaming UK Post.

They were the ones prosecuting and jailing their own franchisees, ruining
their lives and driving some to suicide, on what turned out to be a
complete lie. Like claiming they had evidence of wrongdoing when they
hadn’t.

Yes, but where is the court case against Fujitsu by UK Post?? Or even
the postmasters suing Fujitsu themselves since the issues with Horizon
were the cause. *Both* UK Post and Fujitsu knew Horizon was a buggy
system, and Fujitsu (an some UK Post management) knew the data was
being interferred with.

There are vague stories that Fujistu may be sued, may have to repay
massive amounts of money, etc., but nothing is actually being done
about it.

[Lawrence D'Oliveiro]

Ian Hart, who plays Rutherford (the forensic accountant), looks the
spitting image of Paul Whitehouse.

The saga is still ongoing. There were a massive number of wrongful
prosecutions and convictions, and it will take years to overturn them all.

[Bob Eager]

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Ian Hart, who plays Rutherford (the forensic accountant), looks the
spitting image of Paul Whitehouse.
The saga is still ongoing. There were a massive number of wrongful
prosecutions and convictions, and it will take years to overturn them all.

Well, there is supposed to be an Act of Parliament to do most of them in
one go.

[Bruce Horrocks]

Post by Bob Eager

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Ian Hart, who plays Rutherford (the forensic accountant), looks the
spitting image of Paul Whitehouse.
The saga is still ongoing. There were a massive number of wrongful
prosecutions and convictions, and it will take years to overturn them all.

Well, there is supposed to be an Act of Parliament to do most of them in
one go.

The Public Enquiry is still on-going and about to get interesting as the
senior Post Office staff are now being called to give evidence.

But since the TV drama went out several cases have emerged which show
just how far-ranging the effects have been.

A group of children of sub-postmasters are now seeking compensation. In
once case a couple made bankrupt by the Post Office left the country
taking their 11-year old with them. She was severely bullied at her new
school because she couldn't speak the language. Others were bullied
because of their parent's lost reputations.
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68543963>

In another case a post office owner was accused of murdering his wife
and staging a robbery to cover it up. There was no direct DNA evidence
to link him to the actual killing but the prosecution alleged his motive
was that she knew he'd been stealing and he killed her to silence her.
It's by no means certain that he didn't kill her but what was once a
small doubt is now a much larger one. It doesn't help that the police
botched aspects of the investigation and lost evidence.
<https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/13/post-office-owner-says-horizon-system-was-used-to-frame-him-for-wifes-murder>

[John McCue]

follow-ups trimmed to comp.misc

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Ian Hart, who plays Rutherford (the forensic accountant), looks the
spitting image of Paul Whitehouse.
The saga is still ongoing. There were a massive number of wrongful
prosecutions and convictions, and it will take years to overturn them all.

It is a sad situation that it took a TV show to get justice
for these people. Same is true here in the US these days :(

I remember hearing about this ages ago, but the people affected
were pretty much "screaming in the wind" back then. I then
started seeing news everywhere and I heard it was due to a
documentary aired on TV. Crazy times.

[BungleBob]

Post by John McCue
follow-ups trimmed to comp.misc

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Ian Hart, who plays Rutherford (the forensic accountant), looks the
spitting image of Paul Whitehouse.
The saga is still ongoing. There were a massive number of wrongful
prosecutions and convictions, and it will take years to overturn them all.

It is a sad situation that it took a TV show to get justice
for these people. Same is true here in the US these days :(
I remember hearing about this ages ago, but the people affected
were pretty much "screaming in the wind" back then. I then
started seeing news everywhere and I heard it was due to a
documentary aired on TV. Crazy times.

That often happens.

The New Zealand TV show "Fair Go" is usually about some scum company
(often a one-person tradesman) refusing to do anything about a
complaint ... until the TV comes along, then all of a sudden they can't
do enough to rectify it. :-\

Unfortunately, "Fair Go", which first started in 1977, has just been
stupidly cancelled, along with many other news and current events
shows. Apparently the New Zealand TV networks prefer to waste their
money on boring drivel soap opera "Shortland Street" and idiotic
"reality TV" shows, rather than actually useful news shows. :-(