Google Groups is ending support for Usenet in February 2024

[Ralph Fox]

Google Groups will be ending support for Usenet in February 2024.

<https://support.google.com/groups/answer/11036538>

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Starting on February 22, 2024, you can no longer use Google Groups
    (at groups.google.com) to post content to Usenet groups, subscribe
    to Usenet groups, or view new Usenet content. You can continue to
    view and search for historical Usenet content posted before
    February 22, 2024 on Google Groups.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The good news:
* In a couple of months we will no longer need to filter spam from
Google Groups.
* The Google groups archive will remain for older posts up to 22 Feb
2024.

The bad news (for some):
* For those who use Google Groups to post to Usenet: You will need
to either stop posting, or use a real newsreader and news server.
* For those who use the Google Groups archive to find posts: Posts
after 22 Feb 2024 will not be archived.

[David Goodwin]

In article <***@4ax.com>, -rf-nz-
@-.invalid says...

Post by Ralph Fox
Google Groups will be ending support for Usenet in February 2024.
<https://support.google.com/groups/answer/11036538>
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Starting on February 22, 2024, you can no longer use Google Groups
    (at groups.google.com) to post content to Usenet groups, subscribe
    to Usenet groups, or view new Usenet content. You can continue to
    view and search for historical Usenet content posted before
    February 22, 2024 on Google Groups.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
* In a couple of months we will no longer need to filter spam from
Google Groups.
* The Google groups archive will remain for older posts up to 22 Feb
2024.
* For those who use Google Groups to post to Usenet: You will need
to either stop posting, or use a real newsreader and news server.
* For those who use the Google Groups archive to find posts: Posts
after 22 Feb 2024 will not be archived.

Well, one good thing has come of this at least (aside from an end date
for the recent spam tsunami): I've restored my news server from backups
and got everything going again in preparation for Google Groups going
away. And with an easy way of filtering out all the spam from Ras its
actually possible to read nz.* again! Should have done this sooner.

Going to be a shame to see the easily searchable usenet archives go away
though!

[BungleBob]

Post by David Goodwin
@-.invalid says...

Post by Ralph Fox
Google Groups will be ending support for Usenet in February 2024.
<https://support.google.com/groups/answer/11036538>
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Starting on February 22, 2024, you can no longer use Google Groups
    (at groups.google.com) to post content to Usenet groups, subscribe
    to Usenet groups, or view new Usenet content. You can continue to
    view and search for historical Usenet content posted before
    February 22, 2024 on Google Groups.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
* In a couple of months we will no longer need to filter spam from
Google Groups.
* The Google groups archive will remain for older posts up to 22 Feb
2024.
* For those who use Google Groups to post to Usenet: You will need
to either stop posting, or use a real newsreader and news server.
* For those who use the Google Groups archive to find posts: Posts
after 22 Feb 2024 will not be archived.

Well, one good thing has come of this at least (aside from an end date
for the recent spam tsunami): I've restored my news server from backups
and got everything going again in preparation for Google Groups going
away. And with an easy way of filtering out all the spam from Ras its
actually possible to read nz.* again! Should have done this sooner.
Going to be a shame to see the easily searchable usenet archives go away
though!

Not as easily searchable, but there is
https://www.usenetarchives.com

[David Goodwin]

In article <um57id$1op1i$***@dont-email.me>, ***@thejungle.com
says...

Post by BungleBob

Post by David Goodwin
@-.invalid says...

Post by Ralph Fox
Google Groups will be ending support for Usenet in February 2024.
<https://support.google.com/groups/answer/11036538>
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Starting on February 22, 2024, you can no longer use Google Groups
    (at groups.google.com) to post content to Usenet groups, subscribe
    to Usenet groups, or view new Usenet content. You can continue to
    view and search for historical Usenet content posted before
    February 22, 2024 on Google Groups.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
* In a couple of months we will no longer need to filter spam from
Google Groups.
* The Google groups archive will remain for older posts up to 22 Feb
2024.
* For those who use Google Groups to post to Usenet: You will need
to either stop posting, or use a real newsreader and news server.
* For those who use the Google Groups archive to find posts: Posts
after 22 Feb 2024 will not be archived.

Well, one good thing has come of this at least (aside from an end date
for the recent spam tsunami): I've restored my news server from backups
and got everything going again in preparation for Google Groups going
away. And with an easy way of filtering out all the spam from Ras its
actually possible to read nz.* again! Should have done this sooner.
Going to be a shame to see the easily searchable usenet archives go away
though!

Not as easily searchable, but there is
https://www.usenetarchives.com

Yeah, found that yesterday - seems like a decent start, though its
missing some newsgroups and some recent stuff for those it does have.
But I imagine that's just because the people behind the site are working
on other things given most of the big usenet providers seem to have
everything back to ~2003 ready for archiving.

There is also narkive.com (eg, https://nz.comp.narkive.com/) - this has
been around for years but it is also not comprehensive. The person
behind it recently posted on news.admin.peering that they had plans for
improvements and had bought a cluster of servers to implement "pretty
much state of the art" searching but that work has been derailed by
other commitments (real work by the sounds of it).

I guess most archives are probably going to end up being pretty spotty
between 1991 (the end of the utzoo archive) and 2003 (about as far back
as most commercial providers go) unless Google is willing to hand their
archives off to someone else when they inevitably decide to stop hosting
it themselves.

[Ralph Fox]

Post by BungleBob

Post by David Goodwin
Going to be a shame to see the easily searchable usenet archives go away
though!

As I read Google's announcement, the existing easily searchable Usenet
archives will remain. But now new posts after 22 February 2024 will
be added to those archives.

How long the existing archives will remain is another question.

Post by BungleBob
Not as easily searchable, but there is
https://www.usenetarchives.com

UsenetArchives.com is very badly incomplete. For example, comparing
what UsenetArchives.com has in nz.comp with the actual numbers of
posts (excluding Ras) in nz.comp ...

Time Range UsenetArchives.com Should be (excluding Ras)
----------- ------------------ -------------------------
2011-2012: 0 posts 8711 posts
2013: 4 posts 2312 posts
2014: 1 post 1305 posts
2015-today: 0 posts 2407 posts

UsenetArchives.com also does not let you see a post's headers.


Some other archives are:

NovaBBS -- <https://www.novabbs.com/>
* Limited number of groups.
* Some search capability.
* Up to date, within a few days.
* History/retention nowhere near as extensive as Google groups.
* Lets you see a posts's headers (check the box next to the "by:").

Narkive -- for example, nz.comp -> <https://nz.comp.narkive.com/>
* Large number of groups.
* No search capability AFAIK.
* Usually up to date, within a few days.
* Does not let you see a posts's headers AFAIK.

[David Goodwin]

In article <***@4ax.com>, -rf-nz-
@-.invalid says...

Post by Ralph Fox

Post by David Goodwin
Going to be a shame to see the easily searchable usenet archives go away
though!

As I read Google's announcement, the existing easily searchable Usenet
archives will remain. But now new posts after 22 February 2024 will
be added to those archives.
How long the existing archives will remain is another question.

Which is really a bit of a concern. Stuff prior to 1995 Google got from
elsewhere (like the utzoo archives), while stuff from 2003 onwards is
available from lots of places. But AFAIK only really Deja/Google were
archiving all text newsgroups between 1995 and 2003 so if/when Google
eventually decides to remove usenet content entirely those archives are
gone for good unless Google donates them to somewhere like the IA.

And given the legal difficulties IA had simply having the utzoo archives
available for download I wouldn't be surprised if handing the archives
over to some other entity was more trouble than its worth for Google.

[BungleBob]

Post by David Goodwin
@-.invalid says...

Post by Ralph Fox

Post by David Goodwin
Going to be a shame to see the easily searchable usenet archives go away
though!

As I read Google's announcement, the existing easily searchable Usenet
archives will remain. But now new posts after 22 February 2024 will
be added to those archives.
How long the existing archives will remain is another question.

Which is really a bit of a concern. Stuff prior to 1995 Google got from
elsewhere (like the utzoo archives), while stuff from 2003 onwards is
available from lots of places. But AFAIK only really Deja/Google were
archiving all text newsgroups between 1995 and 2003 so if/when Google
eventually decides to remove usenet content entirely those archives are
gone for good unless Google donates them to somewhere like the IA.
And given the legal difficulties IA had simply having the utzoo archives
available for download I wouldn't be surprised if handing the archives
over to some other entity was more trouble than its worth for Google.

UsenentArchives.com has posts going way back to alomst current.

For example, their nz.comp posts start in 1991 and go through to 2014.
I don't know how busy this newsgroup is usually (I haven't seen
anything in here for years), but they have 254 discussions / threads.

According to a Reddit post from three years ago:

"Usenet fans: UsenetArchives.com now includes UTZOO-Wiseman tapes
of the earliest internet posts made between Feb 1981 and June 1991"

<https://www.reddit.com/r/usenet/comments/j7ebxd/usenet_fans_usenetarchivescom_now_includes/>

[David Goodwin]

In article <um5r1o$1v0v8$***@dont-email.me>, ***@thejungle.com
says...

Post by BungleBob

Post by David Goodwin
@-.invalid says...

Post by Ralph Fox

Post by David Goodwin
Going to be a shame to see the easily searchable usenet archives go away
though!

As I read Google's announcement, the existing easily searchable Usenet
archives will remain. But now new posts after 22 February 2024 will
be added to those archives.
How long the existing archives will remain is another question.

Which is really a bit of a concern. Stuff prior to 1995 Google got from
elsewhere (like the utzoo archives), while stuff from 2003 onwards is
available from lots of places. But AFAIK only really Deja/Google were
archiving all text newsgroups between 1995 and 2003 so if/when Google
eventually decides to remove usenet content entirely those archives are
gone for good unless Google donates them to somewhere like the IA.
And given the legal difficulties IA had simply having the utzoo archives
available for download I wouldn't be surprised if handing the archives
over to some other entity was more trouble than its worth for Google.

UsenentArchives.com has posts going way back to alomst current.
For example, their nz.comp posts start in 1991 and go through to 2014.
I don't know how busy this newsgroup is usually (I haven't seen
anything in here for years), but they have 254 discussions / threads.

They *should* have more recent stuff, but I think I read somewhere that
they are currently hiding threads with fewer than 5 articles to limit
the load crawlers put on the site. I guess that might explain why there
isn't anything post 2014 for this newsgroup.

Post by BungleBob
"Usenet fans: UsenetArchives.com now includes UTZOO-Wiseman tapes
of the earliest internet posts made between Feb 1981 and June 1991"
<https://www.reddit.com/r/usenet/comments/j7ebxd/usenet_fans_usenetarchivescom_now_includes/>

The utzoo archives have been floating around for about 20 years - pretty
much since shortly after Google acquired Deja and launched Google Groups
with usenet access. But I don't think they would contain much if
anything from nz.comp (too old). In fact, its surprising
usenetarchives.com has *anything* for nz.comp prior to ~2003. I wonder
who was archiving it in the 90s besides Deja and where the
usenetarchives.com guy found the archives!

[Ralph Fox]

Post by David Goodwin
says...

Post by BungleBob
UsenentArchives.com has posts going way back to alomst current.
For example, their nz.comp posts start in 1991 and go through to 2014.
I don't know how busy this newsgroup is usually (I haven't seen
anything in here for years), but they have 254 discussions / threads.

They *should* have more recent stuff, but I think I read somewhere that
they are currently hiding threads with fewer than 5 articles to limit
the load crawlers put on the site. I guess that might explain why there
isn't anything post 2014 for this newsgroup.

There are enough threads with 5 or more posts in this newsgroup *after*
2014, to say "don't buy that excuse". For example, BungleBob's thread
"Why do companies make it so hard?? Part 97" started on 29 Nov 2022 has
9 posts in the thread.
REF: <https://nz.comp.narkive.com/8LiDbwdH/why-do-companies-make-it-so-hard-part-97>


Or this thread started 20 Jul 2022 which has 11 posts:
REF: <https://nz.comp.narkive.com/wpECz6Gu/why-do-companies-make-it-so-hard-part-2>

[Kerr Avon]

Post by Ralph Fox
Google Groups will be ending support for Usenet in February 2024.

I'm please to read this, it seems to have been a source of a lot of SPAM
in recent times.

Post by Ralph Fox
* In a couple of months we will no longer need to filter spam from
Google Groups.
* The Google groups archive will remain for older posts up to 22 Feb
2024.

In the case of Agency News I ended up adding filtering to the incoming NNTP
feeds I peer with a few weeks back. Lordy there was a lot of SPAM coming
in. While I'm sad to have to implement such a blanket filter it became the
necessary thing to do.

I guess the Google Groups shutdown for newsgroups may well be related to
the minority of 'real' users on Usenet launching a complaints barrage to
Google about it?

Post by Ralph Fox
* For those who use Google Groups to post to Usenet: You will need
to either stop posting, or use a real newsreader and news server.
* For those who use the Google Groups archive to find posts: Posts
after 22 Feb 2024 will not be archived.

Yep :)

[Ralph Fox]

Post by Kerr Avon
I guess the Google Groups shutdown for newsgroups may well be related to
the minority of 'real' users on Usenet launching a complaints barrage to
Google about it?

I might presume so.

OTOH Google's previous responses to a complaints barrage over spam from
Google Groups in a newsgroup has been to respond as if it means Google
needs to protect Google Groups users from spam originating in Usenet.
For example, this (below) happened in 2021 due to complaints about
upper-case-subject Italian-language spam originating from Google groups
in mozilla.support.seamonkey.

<https://groups.google.com/g/mozilla.support.seamonkey>

     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                           Banned content warning
       mozilla.support.seamonkey has been identified as containing spam,
                    malware, or other malicious content.
     For more information about content policies on Google Groups see our
            Help Center article on abuse and our Terms of Service.
                             [ Back to safety ]
     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Marco Moock]

Post by Ralph Fox

Post by Kerr Avon
I guess the Google Groups shutdown for newsgroups may well be
related to the minority of 'real' users on Usenet launching a
complaints barrage to Google about it?

I might presume so.
OTOH Google's previous responses to a complaints barrage over spam
from Google Groups in a newsgroup has been to respond as if it means
Google needs to protect Google Groups users from spam originating in
Usenet. For example, this (below) happened in 2021 due to complaints
about upper-case-subject Italian-language spam originating from
Google groups in mozilla.support.seamonkey.
<https://groups.google.com/g/mozilla.support.seamonkey>
     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Banned content warning
       mozilla.support.seamonkey has been identified as containing
spam, malware, or other malicious content.
     For more information about content policies on Google Groups see
our Help Center article on abuse and our Terms of Service.
                             [ Back to safety ]
     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That clearly show how braindead Google is.

That banner also affect other groups.
The only positive thing: Spammers can't abuse GG to spam in that group.

[David Goodwin]

In article <***@4ax.com>, -rf-nz-
@-.invalid says...

Post by Ralph Fox
Google Groups will be ending support for Usenet in February 2024.
<https://support.google.com/groups/answer/11036538>
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Starting on February 22, 2024, you can no longer use Google Groups
    (at groups.google.com) to post content to Usenet groups, subscribe
    to Usenet groups, or view new Usenet content. You can continue to
    view and search for historical Usenet content posted before
    February 22, 2024 on Google Groups.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
* In a couple of months we will no longer need to filter spam from
Google Groups.
* The Google groups archive will remain for older posts up to 22 Feb
2024.
* For those who use Google Groups to post to Usenet: You will need
to either stop posting, or use a real newsreader and news server.
* For those who use the Google Groups archive to find posts: Posts
after 22 Feb 2024 will not be archived.

Looks like it has finally been done. I've disabled my rule that throws
away all messages posted from Google Groups and comp.os.vms hasn't been
instantly buried in spam.

I guess Google Groups has finally disconnected from Usenet!

[Kerr Avon]

Post by David Goodwin
I guess Google Groups has finally disconnected from Usenet!

At news.bbs.nz we went from rejecting some 25,000 messages per day down to
none in the space of 48 hours.

Total inflow to the server has come down from around 450-500k messages per
day to now around 160-190k per day... quite a drop in over all flows from
the systems the server is peered with.

[David Goodwin]

Post by Kerr Avon

Post by David Goodwin
I guess Google Groups has finally disconnected from Usenet!

At news.bbs.nz we went from rejecting some 25,000 messages per day down to
none in the space of 48 hours.
Total inflow to the server has come down from around 450-500k messages per
day to now around 160-190k per day... quite a drop in over all flows from
the systems the server is peered with.

Thats certainly a much more manageable volume of data! I guess somewhere
in the low hundreds of MB a day?

I was thinking now that google groups and most of the spam is gone, it
would be interesting to see statistics (average posts per week/date of
last post) on active or semi-active newsgroups to help finding newsgrops
worth subscribing to. I used to just look at the recent history on
Google Groups but of course thats not an option now - instead I've just
got to subscribe and wait.

[Ralph Fox]

Post by David Goodwin
I was thinking now that google groups and most of the spam is gone, it
would be interesting to see statistics (average posts per week/date of
last post) on active or semi-active newsgroups to help finding newsgrops
worth subscribing to. I used to just look at the recent history on
Google Groups but of course thats not an option now - instead I've just
got to subscribe and wait.

For help finding newsgroups worth subscribing to, look at the
recent history on Narkive -- e.g., <https://nz.comp.narkive.com/>.

For some ("selected") groups there is also NovaBBS <https://www.novabbs.com/>.

[David Goodwin]

In article <***@4ax.com>, -rf-nz-
@-.invalid says...

Post by Ralph Fox

Post by David Goodwin
I was thinking now that google groups and most of the spam is gone, it
would be interesting to see statistics (average posts per week/date of
last post) on active or semi-active newsgroups to help finding newsgrops
worth subscribing to. I used to just look at the recent history on
Google Groups but of course thats not an option now - instead I've just
got to subscribe and wait.

For help finding newsgroups worth subscribing to, look at the
recent history on Narkive -- e.g., <https://nz.comp.narkive.com/>.
For some ("selected") groups there is also NovaBBS <https://www.novabbs.com/>.

Thanks! The NovaBBS table is the kind of thing I was looking for - date
of most recent post, etc. Found a few more newsgroups that look
interesting.